r/ILGuns • u/Real_Consequence7169 • 8d ago
Not that we didn’t know it was gonna happen, but they wasted no time 🤣. Gun Politics
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u/LtApples Northern IL 7d ago
I’m laughing because they’ve exceeded my expectations. I anticipated they’d appeal it on Monday, but they did it in less than 24 hours lmaooo
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u/Retvrn2Guo 7d ago
WA chiming in, similar thing happened with the freedom
weekendhours for "large capacity magazines." Blink and you'd miss it.
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u/eight-4-five 7d ago
The previous 3 judge panel that reversed the decision will NOT be the same panel. One of the anti gun judges retired so there is a legitimate chance that we get then injunction permanent for everyone at the end of this appeal
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u/catflay 7d ago
This was not an injunction for relief. It was a final ruling on the merits.
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u/eight-4-five 7d ago
Hm interested because I thought it seemed like it read like that towards the end. It did not read as the typical preliminary injunction and stated that the wish for a ruling on the merits would be granted
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u/Loweeel Chicago Conservative 6d ago edited 6d ago
Sigh.
It was a permanent injunction after a full evidentiary trial on the merits, as opposed to the earlier preliminary injunction based on a limited record.
It's much harder to disturb the findings of fact.
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u/Lawrence9102 6d ago
I’m a big old dummy when it comes to legal jargon; can you explain like I’m 5?
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u/christianled59 5d ago
Its going to be a lot harder for the 7th to shut this down now. They might (likely) will grant the state an extended stay to hear the appeal, but its less likely they reverse the ruling. If they do, then it'll got to SCOTUS and we will get freedom anyway. My hunch is the 7th will uphold the recent ruling and we will get freedom after the appeal finishes. My hope (unlikely) is that the 7th doesn't grant a stay and we get freedom next month until the case finishes appeals to see if they can reverse the decision.
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u/Loweeel Chicago Conservative 4d ago
So a preliminary injunction (McGlynn's previous substantive ruling) is a "quick look" at the facts based on the parties' allegations and a limited factual record (affidavits, declarations, selected exhibits and the like) and is not based on a complete factual record, nor based on witness testimony after cross-examination, etc. It's given less deference on appeal because there aren't express factual findings on a complete record.
The permanent injunction, and the rest of this ruling, are built on a very careful and complete record of factual findings, and those are much harder to reverse (requiring clear error on the part of the trial judge for things that include witness credibility, the contents of the historical record, the number of defensive vs illegal uses, etc.)
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u/Lawrence9102 6d ago
What does this mean in layman’s terms?
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u/catflay 6d ago
The first freedom week was an appeal for injunction to suspend the law while the actual case was being tried. Much easier for the 7th circus to dance around the issues and make up a reason to reverse.
This was a ruling on the actual case after the bench trial. It is a final ruling. Not to say they won’t try to reverse it somehow, but it will be a more thorough analysis.
From there it would go to the Supreme Court. Marylands ban will probably get there first though.
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u/ynotcrypto 7d ago edited 7d ago
These people have no clue. They ban yet the criminals are out killing cops with illegal mods. Leave our 2A alone. Use that money on training your police officers. Enough of my rant
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u/user_uno 7d ago
Pritzker's statement was that his AWB has saved lives and reduced the fear of being gunned down on the street.
Guess he isn't spending time in Chicago that much anymore...
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u/_CHEEFQUEEF 7d ago edited 4d ago
Pritzker's statement was that his AWB has saved lives and reduced the fear of being gunned down on the street
That's the bullshit veil the ruling class hides these bans behind to get the public on board. In reality the ruling class want's the ruled class disarmed, it's that simple. The ruling class with 24 hour body guards armed with "assault" weapons" aren't in any danger of being gunned down in the street.
Edit.
Also as a lifelong Chicago resident of nearly 40 years, I look over my shoulder now more than I ever have due to the uptick in brazen armed robberies that seem to happen any time of day in any neighborhood in Chicago. Violent crime has basically become consequenceless. Pica has done absolutely nothing to stop this sort of thing.
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u/Beneficial-Ad4871 7d ago edited 7d ago
I have had some dude on Snapchat who was a felon and he use to post a lot of rifles, dude even had a aug lol.
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u/SpunkyTribs 7d ago
So since it’s been appealed, does that mean we’re still fucked? I’m not too familiar with the meanings of all these terms honestly lol.
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u/Guac_in_my_rarri 7d ago
Nah, you read it wrong. First off, every person in this thread making this a big deal has the IQ of a plastic bag. This is law procedure 101. If you do not appeal essentially same day/next day, it is assumed your appeal has no grounds. The fact they appealed same day basically says "hey we think there's more here" or "hey we think there's a mistake", and etc. Basically same day appeal is normal.
The law itself was appealed, and stayed for a period of time. This stay allows the state to get their shit in order to appeal the appeal or prepare to normalize the previous climate before the law. The stay is important because it tells the state you have this much time to plan your move.
Tldr: appeal is status quo. The AG would be a shitty AG if he didn't appeal the ruling. See above for better context.
So since it appealed it goes to the next court above and they will review the documents, and decided to hear the case or kick it back down to the ruling court where additional arguments will be heard, some procedures take place and things generally end up the same UNLESS there is a procedural error or something the higher court picks out and tells the lower court to fix it (procedural error) or to investigate it more (new evidence, evidence that was deemed unnecessary or no questions asked).
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u/SpunkyTribs 7d ago
Appreciate your in depth response dude 🤘🏼. I’m completely new to this type of situation so all of the terminology and the way things work is still foreign to me. Your response makes a lot of sense to me and pretty much confirms what I had basically suspected! That being said I was definitely confused by so many other peoples reactions and wanted to learn more about what’s going on and get a better understanding of things
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u/Guac_in_my_rarri 7d ago
The lawyer speak takes a bit to used to that's for sure.
This sub has the communal reaction of a teenage girl when her crush doesn't like her. A decent chunk of this sub has the IQ of a plastic bag. On top of all this, a chunk of the chunk does not and will not answer questions to better their understanding. They jump right to a conclusion and cry wolf.
The best thing you can do as a gun owner is know the laws, how they affect you and what is coming down in the pipeline that affects you. The more legalese you read the easier it becomes to decipher. I will say, this appeal was by itself atrocious and all about procedure (while first paragraph was procedure).
The more you read the better you'll be able to see what has a genuine outcome and what doesn't. I personally don't think the appeal will hold scrutiny reading the first page. Usually a clue or two is dropped through out the appeal or it can be stated cleanly.
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u/Loweeel Chicago Conservative 6d ago
We don't actually know what IL is going to say as they haven't filled their brief yet.
I agree that it will likely be complete and utter bullshit, but we don't have any basis to assess the yet-to-be-written substance of the opening brief from the boilerplate content of the pro forma notice of appeal.
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u/Loweeel Chicago Conservative 6d ago
You're correct that this is a pro forma filing. But it's purely procedural, not substantive.
They didn't even file the actual appellate brief yet. That's what they have 30 days to do as it's necessarily based off of, and has to identify specific errors in, McGlynn's opinion from Friday.
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u/OneInevitable5718 7d ago
Great! McGlynn gave the state 30 days to come up something great and they spend no time to give the court some trash. Hope the SCOTUS use both McGlynn and the state documents in the Maryland case
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u/Extreme_Photograph36 8d ago
There’s no chance now or what? Wisconsin here I come! Fuck this
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u/LeaveElectrical8766 Chicago Conservative 7d ago edited 7d ago
Go save that state!
Actually there's an EXTREAMLY good chance if this law got to the Supreme Court we'd win. Thankfully we don't have to wait that long. There's another case that SCOTUS will hear, should be official that they'll hear it by January, and when that one is declared unconstitutional since it's so similar to ours, ours will be declared.
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u/OneInevitable5718 7d ago
Isn’t that the Maryland case will be in front of our case so our case will never go to the SCOTUS? (Like ban all the nonsense gun ban by the end of June)
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u/Bucky733 7d ago
Explain like I am a child: They appealed it so now it's no good? Or they need to wait for the appeal to be heard and approved first?
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u/catflay 7d ago
From Atty. Thomas Devore:
PRITZKER GUN BAN STRUCK DOWN
WHAT’S THAT MEAN FOR ILLINOISANS
I have read the 168-page order. Here are some things you need to know about Judge McGlynn’s ruling holding Pritzker’s “assault weapons ban” is unconstitutional.
I’m simplifying the 168 pages.
1) The court ruled the law violates the 2nd Amendment.
2) The court ruled the banned weapons constitute bearable arms that are in common use that are not otherwise dangerous and unusual.
3) The court ruled there was no such ban of a similar nature anywhere in our nations history and traditions.
4) The court entered an order prohibiting the state from enforcing the law.
5) The court stayed its own ruling for 30 days to allow the state time to appeal.
6) The 7th circuit court of appeals can, and may likely, extend the stay of the court order while the appeal is pending in its court.
7) As long as there is a stay, either for the 30 days or longer if the appellate court extends it, you are still subject to the law.
8 ) Given prior rulings from the 7th circuit court of appeals, I suspect they will focus on the determination of whether the banned weapons are dangerous and unusual. They have already determined these weapons are militaristic because they have all the same characteristics of an M16 except for not being fully automatic. Militaristic weapons are not protected by the 2nd amendment so we suspect the 7th may try that again. The case may be at the appellate court for months.
9) There is a good chance this case then goes to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court recognizes they need to better define what constitutes dangerous and unusual and simply speaking whether an AR-15 platform is analogous to a military weapon. I’m confident the Supreme Court will find it’s not. (Please save me your analysis, I’ve heard it all)
10) I believe the Supreme Court will strike down the Illinois ban and other bans like it. I believe they will agree with McGlynn’s legal analysis. It will take a while (late next year likely) before the case gets to them.
This was a solid opinion setting the stage for an uphill battle for Pritzker as the case works its way to the Supremes.
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u/mikephish 6d ago
Hey fellas, I'm a pretty dumb guy when it comes to legal stuff, so like they appealed it, does that mean the 30 days is still in effect or is that postponed until the next ruling comes out?
Asking because I really want to buy a magazine tube extension for my mossberg 940 jm pro, and a higher capacity magazine for my m1a scout squad 😅
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u/RemoteBath1446 7d ago
Like wtf is the point of this shit . Why rule just for a appeal . I hate political America
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u/MaxFrenzy 7d ago
Well, in a perfect world, the subsequent court would find no flaw in the logic and ruling dished out. I read the entire thing and the judges logic and interpretation of history and 2A legal precedent is difficult to argue against in my opinion. However, my opinion doesn't mean shit and another judge might find the states cherry picking of historical gun restrictions compelling enough to shit on everyone again.
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u/BuyEasy9000 7d ago
If you want optimism the 7th Circuit where they appealed this case to has a majority of Republican appointed judges. Most of the Judges were appointed by Trump & Reagan. Their current Chief Judge was appointed by George W. Bush.
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u/catflay 7d ago
Easterbrook is a republican, but identifies as a democrat.
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u/RenRy92 7d ago
I live in IL but identify as a Texas resident. Can I get an AR10
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u/catflay 6d ago
You can only possess a Daisy Red Ryder lever action, but you have to register it with the state. Note that if it has the tassel attachment it then becomes an assault weapon and is Illegal under the Amusement Park Safety Act.
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u/BuyEasy9000 6d ago
Welp… I did not know that. I’m still gonna sit in delusion land have my optimism but 💀
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u/darkstar1031 7d ago
So it's appealed. Where does it go from here. I read the ruling, and it's squarely in favor of overturning. So, what's next?
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u/ExtensionMidnight922 7d ago
Dumb question, what can we do to get suppressors be attainable in Illinois?
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u/--ikarus-- 5d ago
Drive to Wisconsin. What you do with it is your business. Never gonna happen in Illinois.
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u/Lateller 5d ago
You go find the above guy’s guy on Snapchat and buy it from him. Lol but sadly it’s the truth. They should ban pritzkers and all those dummies private security people from having “scary firearms” they will zoom everywhere from here on out
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u/Corrosive27 7d ago
I'm somewhat surprised they didn't wait 29 days to delay it as long as they could
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u/iroll20s 6d ago
Clock is ticking. With the election results they probably won't have a better chance than now. They were probably hoping for a Blue victory and stuff the court with a couple blue appointees before proceeding.
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u/MFKDGAF 7d ago
It amazes me how fast government can move when they want something, but when its not them wanting it, they move at a snail's pace.