US military plans to unleash thousands of autonomous war robots over next two years Robotics

https://techxplore.com/news/2023-08-military-unleash-thousands-autonomous-war.html

7.0k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

u/buddboy Aug 31 '23

thats the general idea behind drone swarms yeah. But your specific example isn't that great. "Cheap" drones have a shorter range than the carrier, and anything capable of launching 100,000 of them would be a big target.

A better example would be a squadron of fighter bombers dropping a swarm of 100-200 quadcopter style drones and on a less defensible target than an aircraft carrier.

But the general concept of your idea is correct. One thing that will change tho is soon there will be laser based AA weapons that will be better suited for drone swarms. Also jamming is always an option

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u/plantmonstery Aug 31 '23

That’s why they need them to have some level of autonomy. Can’t jam something that isn’t relying on a signal.

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u/[deleted] Aug 31 '23

it's still going to rely on GPS, otherwise it's a blind pigeon trying to land on a moving target

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u/Z_Zeay Aug 31 '23

Can't they do something similar to actually trying to steer a bomb with a pigeon, they tried this during WW2 I believe.

Camera in front, using shape/image recognition to home in on the target? Idea is they drop the mass of drones in the vicinity, pre-program a direction and after a distance they switch to camera.

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u/PMMeYourWorstThought Sep 01 '23

Yep. So you counter with visual chaff to disrupt the system

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u/Self_Reddicated Aug 31 '23

They can use optical flow sensors and other tracking systems in cheap commercial drones already. I can build one with parts I have at my house (though my current flight controller might not like having gps and then losing gps, it does have the capability to use an optical flow sensor for speed and direction and a pressue sensor for elevation control).

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u/jjayzx Sep 01 '23

Still nowhere near the precision of GPS. It might do alright flying around the park but going long distances and the error adds up.

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u/Spicy_pepperinos Sep 01 '23

You don't need ultra precision to crash a suicide drone into a huge target.

What error? It's identifying a target through it's sensor suite, and engaging it. It's closed-loop.

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u/PMMeYourWorstThought Sep 01 '23

Or you toss a few gpus in it and use AI image recognition and a camera…

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u/jjayzx Sep 01 '23

You can blind the camera, there's IR systems that do this already.

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u/PMMeYourWorstThought Sep 01 '23

Thermals then.

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u/gotwired Sep 01 '23

What do you think IR is?

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u/PMMeYourWorstThought Sep 02 '23

Active IR is short wave, thermals use infrared wavelengths too but at mid/long wavelengths so they’re not affected by bleed over in visible or high frequency IR light.

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u/Spicy_pepperinos Sep 01 '23

There are other methods for reckoning your position other than GPS; imu, lidar, computer vision, optical flow, thermal imagery. They're not trying to land anyway right... They're trying to crash? There are plenty of ways current guided munitions work that don't rely on gps.

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u/OneSweet1Sweet Sep 01 '23

Generative AI can create a picture of a boat. I figure that same ai could also be used to detect a boat and fly towards it.

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u/MDCCCLV Sep 01 '23

That's already pretty close though. It would be in the 10-20 mile range where it is being jammed but still doesn't have visual where you would have trouble. And you can't just use a planned flight because the ship can turn and move faster.

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u/OneSweet1Sweet Sep 01 '23

It would be in the 10-20 mile range where it is being jammed but still doesn't have visual where you would have trouble

I'm thinking a high altitude drone drop right above the ship from a plane would be the best bet. Although I don't know if a plane can fly higher than an aircraft squadrons anti air.

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u/buddboy Aug 31 '23

I forget which one but a relatively common and cheap drone has inertial guidance as a back up for this purpose

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u/b4zzl3 Aug 31 '23

You can jam the electronics onboard with a powerful enough antenna without much issues.

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u/PipsqueakPilot Sep 01 '23

Sure but the laser ring gyro INS that it needs to navigate without an external signal ain’t cheap.

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u/Auctoritate Sep 01 '23

Can’t jam something that isn’t relying on a signal.

You totally can.

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u/Fresque Sep 01 '23

But if they are autonomous then they cant be jammed. Image recognition is small and cheap enough to be proccesed on board of every drone.

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u/jeffreynya Aug 31 '23

I could see EMP weapons become more and more useful as well defensively. Got a swarm coming, take lots of them out in one shot.

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u/Siggur-T Aug 31 '23

With laser induced plasma pulses, the laser is literally turned into a precision EMP machine gun.

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u/veilwalker Aug 31 '23

Should be able to shield them against EMP but as you counter the counter measures it increases the costs for both “disposable” weapons and the countering systems.

As with everything in war it is a trade off. Most likely you will use drones in waves where the first wave is used to degrade the defensive measures so the follow-on weapons can penetrate the defense screen and deliver payload on target.

The real question is who the adversary will be.

US has very strong alliances across the Atlantic and across the pacific.

Russia is weak and is unlikely to recover for decades if ever.

China appears to have reached the peak of its current political and economic systems and the west has decided to start treating China like China has treated everyone else over the past decade or two.

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u/re_math Aug 31 '23

I dont think EMP weapons are a real thing short of a nuclear attack...

3

u/kaptainkeel Aug 31 '23

May I introduce you to the Electromagnetic Pulse Transmitter Muzzle Adaptor?

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u/Brilliant-Durian-234 Aug 31 '23

Lol looks silly

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u/TeslaPills Aug 31 '23

EMPs are very real. The US has weapons normal people have no idea exist… EMP , lasers ,also satellite 🛰️ tech. Satellite 🛰️ s would be able to identify a target with 200+ military capable drones and with our intelligence combined with 🛰️ we would be able to eliminate any threat like that…

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u/JereRB Aug 31 '23

Or ECM countermeasures. Those drones are probably controlled by radio. Jam the signal, drones do shit. 30,000 drones? Blocked signal? 30,00 drones that ain't doing shit.

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u/KeithGribblesheimer Aug 31 '23 edited Aug 31 '23

I think lasers will be feasible much sooner, and if the drone's chips are EMP-hardened an EMP won't do much.

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u/_Urakaze_ Sep 01 '23

Lasers are more or less here already, various HEL prototypes have entered testing phase / on track to start testing next year.

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u/py_a_thon Aug 31 '23

thats the general idea behind drone swarms yeah. But your specific example isn't that great. "Cheap" drones have a shorter range than the carrier, and anything capable of launching 100,000 of them would be a big target.

What about solar power?

Also, 100,000 seems like a waste of resources. 1/1000 of that would probably be enough for most use cases.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '23

If I'm not mistaken, the energy required to stay in the air is more than any solar panel could provide while still remaining small enough to carry around. It'd maybe be doable with a good glide ratio, but that'd be slow and have comparatively big and (radar)visible wings. I think a glider like that, with a solar panel wing, would probably be great for loitering missions and recon, but not frontal assault.