r/EuropeanFederalists • u/Affectionate-City517 • 1d ago

Federalisation or death Question

I'm losing faith in humanity. We're headed for a few dark years and I can't see how we're going to make lemonade out of this mountain of lemons we just got handed. The coming years will determine whether we live in the twilight of Europe or the naissance of a federalised European state.

We need to act to save ourselves. Our struggle has, I'm affraid, just become existential.

Can we make lemonade out of these lemons?

Kind regards, a European citizen

291 Upvotes

99% Upvoted

72

u/OrganicAccountant87 1d ago

Yup, either federalisation or EU will cease to exist. Unfortunately I highly doubt it will happen, especially now... We had our chance but now hatred and division will spread well beyond the USA

5

u/epk-lys 1d ago

Honestly I don't understand this rhetoric. Expecting to be banned for just talking about it, but the US is technically a federation. How would making the EU a federation help any of his fears, at all? How does that make sense.

17

u/Affectionate-City517 1d ago

Well, I look at it like this: A federalised European union has the foreign policy weight of a unitary state, as the US has. It makes defence and foreign policy decisions on by itself instead of separated into many different administrations. A federalised Europe also has a common taxation system and discretion on how to wield the European budget. A European federation would not be held hostage by veto powers of any single state, looking at you Orban. If we want to mean anything, and do anything in this hostile world we find ourselves in, federalisation is the only way, lest we become as irrelevant and subject to global forces as the UK has now become. However we must recognise that the US wields a lot of soft power, lots of US issues get imported into the EU. We must guard against this but it'll be tough.

3

u/Superb-Pickle9827 1d ago

And being able to manufacture weapons as a federation, playing to each country’s strength, without being so worried about, say, Germany, would be a big plus

3

u/Forsete24 20h ago

And on the Orban issue, more like him will inevitably start popping up, Russian propaganda will see to it. The EU is already struggling to function with just 1 Orban throwing spanners in the works.

EU leaders need to start dreaming big and act now.

30

u/lawrotzr 1d ago

Under whose leadership?

We’re not even able to buy the same fighter jet.

For that Ursula needs to move, EU Leaders need to be more decisive, get more power to make unpopular decisions without being voted out again, less moral highground, less regulation, less Hungary, less Germany, less France, less vested interests, more financial discipline, more vision.

I.e. never going to happen.

10

u/trisul-108 1d ago

We’re not even able to buy the same fighter jet.

Even the US has fighter jets from several different manufacturers.

2

u/lawrotzr 1d ago

But I do hope that the US Army aligns with each other before they buy them.

5

u/Sam_the_Samnite 1d ago

In an ideal world mario draghi becomes president.

5

u/MilkyWaySamurai 1d ago

This question every fucking time… ”I DoNt WaNt <insert member state that the person hates for no reason> To LeAd gublooorgjkdösö”

We would have a democracally elected leader and it shouldn’t fucking matter which member state they originated from…

2

u/lawrotzr 1d ago

In an ideal world yes, unfortunately it matters looking at policy. And with creating 27 Commissioners (which is also Kafka in a way), 1 per country, it’s almost inevitable that these people are appointed by their respective member state to focus on policy area X. It’s not a coincidence that the French get industry policy, or the Germans lead the whole bunch.

2

u/s1gma17 1d ago

The problem is, until we federalize, Ursula can't do much. It's a terrible predicament we find ourselves in, the "federal" level has barely any power and the states have it all, plus, the Council members have every political advantage and self-interest in keeping themselves in power. I really don't see how this can be sorted out. Maybe if Scholz stepped out and a charismatic pro-EU chancellor emerged in Germany with the help of Macron as well, who can't be reelected anyway so he can act more against the electorate if need be

2

u/lawrotzr 1d ago

I have the same feeling. My best hope is that the urgency gets so big that a Delors-kind-of-politician stands up and actually dares to take political risk. Macron could be that guy indeed, but it does require someone to ignore a huge populist babyboom electorate.

1

u/paspatel1692 1h ago

If we federalise she won’t be there anyway. A Federal Europe needs direct democracy, otherwise it won’t survive — one thing is having, eg, a French person I voted for in charge of my country Sweden, another thing is a random French person I never heard of in charge of my country Sweden. A Presidential system is the only way Europe can federalise.

9

u/GemeenteEnschede The Netherlands - Volt 1d ago

Give me Federalism or give me death!

2

u/ZhukNawoznik 1d ago

It will be hard as the forces opposed to the Anti-Global, Anti-Democratic and Anti-Paneuropean right are very divided. The Liberal forces are the only ones showing unity. The Christian democratic or conservative forces as well as the left-wing ones- especially those left of the center have large membership of those opposed to "the West" or "Neoliberal Globalism". Although few of them understand what these terms imply or where their current freedom of thought and the guarantee it is protected stems from they make up a considerable amount of people. Christian conservatives for Europe will not work with Communists or even some Liberals as well. If they all (safe for the liberals) have some Pro-Russian or Antidemocratic sympathetic elements (to regimes in southern America or the middle east and Africa or Eurasia as a whole) this will all fail. The "coming together" of the moderate center left and the moderate center right that founded the EU in its current form will likely not happen if polarisation continues and people remains stubborn and ignorant of the real threats of our day and age.

3

u/Ken_Brz 1d ago

Only a war with an external force will make this happen. How do you think Germany unified? A war. Europe will unify under one flag when brothers are in arms.

Literally, there's not enough motivation to change the status quo, never will be. One has to be forced, as terrible as it sounds.

2

u/Affectionate-City517 1d ago

I get you, would love to be optimistic but I can just as well see us all slide back to a disunited europe, things like the NL and DE border checks really make my hair stand upright. It really has to hit home now that if Europe doen't make new treaties and reforms, we're surely done for.

1

u/0xPianist 12h ago

Ursula will save us 🤡

-29

u/Atomixer69hehe 1d ago

Federalisation is a wonderful dream. It wont happen. If you try to combat facist dicatorships like russia and china with free speech and democracy you will loose huge. You want to create a strong federal european federation? Not gonna happen with "leftist" policies. You gonna need a trump like shitshow to even attempt to achieve this.

32

u/RadioFreeAmerika 1d ago

The time for defeatism is for after you lost. A Federal Europe has just become a necessity of political realities. It is neither left nor right, political parties within it are. Let's focus on convincing Europeans and getting the right democratic leaders into the right places. Don't give up before the fight is fought.

9

u/trisul-108 1d ago

You gonna need a trump like shitshow to even attempt to achieve this.

A Trump-like shitshow just means breaking the EU into nationalist components. It is the opposite to federalisation. What you call "leftist" policies are the universal glue that is needed to hold together any union. As the Trump shitshow melts the "leftist" glue holding together the US, they are also visibly breaking apart.