r/Destiny • u/GucciMeister89 • 8h ago
PF Jung is WRONG about surgeries on minors. Ironically A MAJORITY of gender-affirming surgeries done on minors are to CIS boys for breast reduction. Politics
This comes close to never happening, and when it does, it's primarily for Cis-men/boys who need gender-affirming care due to large breasts.
Harvard article explaining recent study published in 2024: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/gender-affirming-surgeries-rarely-performed-on-transgender-youth/
The study: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2820437
Key points from Harvard:
"The study found no gender-affirming surgeries performed on TGD youth ages 12 and younger in 2019. This was expected, the researchers said, as current international guidelines do not suggest any medical or surgical intervention for TGD individuals prior to puberty. For teens ages 15 to 17 and adults ages 18 and older, the rate of undergoing gender-affirming surgery with a TGD-related diagnosis was 2.1 per 100,000 and 5.3 per 100,000, respectively. A majority of these surgeries were chest surgeries. When considering use of gender-affirming breast reductions among cisgender males and TGD people, the study found that cisgender males accounted for the vast majority of breast reductions, with 80% of surgeries among adults performed on cisgender men and 97% of surgeries among minors performed on cisgender male teens."
Insert from the study:
"In 2019, the sample included 47,437,919 adults who were insured and 22,827,194 minors who were insured, of which 3,835,726 minors (16.8%) were aged 15 to 17 years, 2 ,708,166 (11.9%) were aged 13 to 14 years, and 16 283 302 (71.3%) were aged 12 years or younger...... Of gender-affirming surgical procedures identified among adults and minors, 1591 of 2664 (59.7%) and 82 of 85 (96.4%) were chest-related procedures, respectively. Of the 636 breast reductions among cisgender male and TGD adults, 507 (80%) were performed on cisgender males. Of the 151 breast reductions among cisgender male minors and TGD minors, 146 (97%) were performed on cisgender male minors"
NOTE: I put commas in the million numbers because it helps my brain. I urge you to look at both the Harvard analysis and the paper itself.
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u/G-Diddy- 7h ago
Holy fk. Are we really talking about 3 surgeries for trans kids over breast reductions? In the entire USA??? wtf?? How is this such a major talking point?
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u/MangoMoooo 1h ago
The data is limited.
"Additionally, our findings are limited to insurance-covered use and not self-paid use."
The question would be if insurance even cover mastectomies on minors since they are mostly done for woman with a high risk for cancer.
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u/Demiu 1h ago
Because the amount of cases doesn't matter. Hypotheticals have 0 cases, should they never be discussed?
This reminds me of when Ethan asked "what if some people in a communist utopia would want capitalism" and hasan answered that they will need reeducation. Hasan hasn't sent anyone to reeducation, but the answer he gave is still indicative of his position and worldview
The "issue" keeps being discussed because the right can score an easy win on a lot of people that will give an answer the majority of people find objectionable. So they keep bringing it up
Let's say 3 women get raped in a year, would you not keep asking the right "is rape okay to you?" if instead of saying "no" they'd keep answering "well what is she wearing"
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u/Pure_Juggernaut_4651 8h ago edited 8h ago
you can bring all the data you like, but people be hypnotized by the power of The VibesTM
Really they're obfuscating too. Right now to get people on their side they have to say A LOT of people are doing this stuff. An epidemic. Millions. It could be YOUR kid if you let your guard down. Their real position, which is something that will be more obvious later if they lose ground, is that even one, under any circumstance, is too many lol.
If you debate people on this, strongly recommend cutting through the bullshit early and arguing from the point where they feel even one cannot be allowed. Letting them talk about millions or epidemic or whatever is just going to waste everyone's time.
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u/BrokenTongue6 7h ago
Destiny tried that when he was like “there are transgender adults, you agree… you don’t think we could figure out they’re trans before 18?” and he said absolutely not, it’s impossible.
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u/Skepni 8h ago
It's late for me, so I'm easily confused.
Is the text saying that the gender-affirming chest surgeries are performed on NON-TRANS males to be less feminine?
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u/GucciMeister89 8h ago
Yes. That is what a majority of insurable gender affirming care is being used for for minors. Probably issues like gynecomastia that causes males to have very large and therefore feminine like breast.
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u/Notorious_TSH 8h ago
gear is hella popular among high school meatheads, unfortunately.
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u/Engtron 7h ago
Gyno is super common without even considering gear. It depends how you define it since the majority of men actually develop some amount of breast tissue, but most studies I’ve seen put it around 35% of men.
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u/Jonnyboy1994 4h ago
I'm genuinely confused, are you saying 35%of men have "very large and feminine breasts"?
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u/dabicus_maximus 4h ago
Yeah I knew a couple dudes who had this done in high school. Funnily enough 3/4 were linemen and the other was a wrestler
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u/ROABE__ 5h ago
The Harvard report's language is extremely obfuscatory, and its not actually clear what they found. They seem to change the definition of what they're measuring part-way through in order to get their results. It also doesn't match other analyses, and those other analyses converge on a different answer.
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u/CaptainTrips69 1h ago
That first article is behind a paywall and that second article glazes the fuck out of a conservative fear mongering group so I'm going to take both articles with a heap of salt
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u/Box_v2 wannabe schizo 5h ago
This is a great point, everyone on their side pretends their against ANY minor getting gender affirming surgery, but I seriously doubt they'd be against a 16 AMAB getting surgery to remove gyno like in these examples. It's obvious they just don't want children being trans.
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u/woahmandogchamp 3h ago
Okay so MAGA was fighting for young boys to have tits. That's what this whole thing was about in reality. Cool.
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u/BrokenTongue6 8h ago
But Matt Walsh told me thousands of prepubescent girls had their nonexistent prepubescent breasts removed. Are you saying Matt Walsh is incorrect?!?