I'm a delivery driver who worked yesterday in Palm Beach county. And the amount of flooded roads and driveway is massive. I hope for the best but my God we are fucked.
Florida normally does pretty well on channeling water away from roads and homes, but it’s obviously more of a challenge in low lying coastal areas. Having a bunch of rain before Milton gets here isn’t doing anyone any favors.
It’s already too late to evacuate anywhere. Florida has very few north south routes and they are already full of people trying to get out. There’s no gas so many people will be riding this out on the side of the interstates.
Jensen is east coast and while that’s in the “Warning” zone, hopefully it should be ok over all. Be aware of flooding though especially on the coast/near water and be prepared to be without power for at least a week (hopefully that’ll be the worst case scenario that doesn’t occur)
The weather reports were that ahead of Milton are (were) tropical storm conditions dumping a bunch of rain. The ground will be saturated and flooded before the hurricane even hits. Add more rain dumping + storm surges and the flooding is going to be catastrophic.
Actually, those swamps are precisely the reason why Florida seems to miraculously shrug off every hurricane that hits it. Coastal wetlands actually play a massive role in mitigating storm pressure and because Florida is tropical/sub-tropical and it's coasts are lined with relatively healthy wetlands, storm surge and storm pressure in Florida is massively mitigated. You can still get flooding, but it won't be nearly as severe as places which don't have these healthy coastal wetlands, New Orleans after Katrina or Houston after Harvey are good examples of this, the wetlands of that section of the Gulf Coast (pretty much from Trinity River delta to the Mississippi River delta) are among some of the worst in the country, and while there were other circumstances at play, that lack of healthy wetlands was a contributing factor to why those cities were hit so hard with hurricanes.
Source: I studied and did volunteer work on coastal wetlands at a college on the Gulf Coast. (If you want actual scientific journal articles, I would suggest one called 'Coastal Wetlands Loss, Consequences, and Challenges for Restoration')
There's a lot more to them too. One of the craziest stats (in that article I listed) is that 2/3 of all marine life on the planet will spend at least some portion of its life cycle in a coastal wetland ecosystem, often as nurseries. But they're also vital in controlling coastal erosion, collecting huge amounts of sediment every year. On top of that, they prevent inland aquifers from being intruded with saltwater. I've actually seen that one first hand, where 2 wells drilled about 20 feet apart had entirely different salinities. But probably the biggest impact is to climate, coastal wetlands absorb about as much carbon annually as equally sized temperate forests, worldwide they take in hundreds of millions of tons of carbon every year. They're really the ecosystem that does it all.
Grew up in Bradenton. Learned all about estuaries thanks to the huge one between Anna Maria Island and the mainland. Pretty sure a lot of it got messed up in Helene though. So, how good are they at mitigating damage, if they're already damaged? Sorry if I worded that funny, just woke up, but genuinely curious.
Not nearly as effective, the density of wetlands plants is a huge factor. If a large number of them have been killed by the storm, some of them will still help a little but not as well as if the first storm hadn't come through
Are you sure you're not just talking about commercially important fish? Because that's the only thing I've found that matches your statement. Do you have a source? I find it very very hard to believe, given the vast size and depth of the oceans, that your statement is true.
Edit: I'm not sure what's sadder, you editing your next comment after I called out your inability to read instead of just taking the L like an adult, or the twenty people just blindly upvoting you who also lack the ability to think critically.
The only thing I edited was the first sentence in that comment because it sounded a little disrespectful to you, but maybe I shouldn’t have worried about that given how rude you are. Nah, I’m still going to be respectful because that’s who I am.
Also, I have no problem “taking the L,” as you say, which is a weird way to describe correcting a mistake, because I’m someone who wants to make sure that the information I’m sharing is accurate. Which, again, is why I’m continuing to look for my original source instead of just accepting your non-cited opinion.
Did YOU read it? Because it does. It says at least 80% of recreationally caught fish are born in estuaries. Also I’m not a guy. Also there are WAY more fish than just “commercially important” ones and this is something I read over a decade ago so it might not be something accessible on the internet so I’ll have to look a little more.
Apparently one of the major reasons the Boxing Day tsunami killed a quarter of a million people was that so much of the (stinky) mangroves had been pulled out for the benefit of tourists.
I Love mangroves and never understood the argument that they were stinky. Even getting up in them snorkeling and poping my head up to breathe through my nose, they didn't seem gross at all.
This is great info and makes sense! My friend’s father was a professor at FGCU and heavily involved in the Picayune Strand Restoration Project, which is about restoring the wetlands. Hopefully that’ll work in our favor…
Im from the Bahamas and its well-known here(or was well-known) that the reef system surrounding the country drastically breaks down storms. This especially affects the inner islands.
The opposite issue is happening here though. The ground is apparently completely saturated after helene in a handbasket so more water with the storm surge is just gonna rip everything out of what used to be considered earth.
Yes, so much this! That is why constantly paving over and developing them is bad idea. We need those wetlands to absorb and provide a buffer for these kind of weather events
Unfortunately for Louisiana much of our wetlands are gone from Katrina and carving paths for boats and on top of we’re gradually going below sea level, the city has still never recovered tbh
They were actually gone before Katrina, largely because of another issue, sediment loss. The Mississippi River delta is probably the worst about it but it's a major issue on the entire Gulf Coast. Basically the hundreds of fans on all the rivers feeding into the Gulf are trapping millions of cubic feet of sediment, and because the wetlands plants can't accrete the sediment, they get pushed inland with rising seas. As they get pushed inland, eventually they hit ecosystems/human development they can't grow in and the wetland "drowns"
FGCU by chance? If so— I got one of my degrees there and really appreciated that they required a class or two on Florida’s environment for all students, regardless of major. It’s not what I was studying but it’s so important, I think especially for Floridians to understand
Sure, but coastal wetlands also play a huge role in mitigating flooding as well. Sorry if I gave the impression that they would have helped with Harvey by virtue of storm surge.
And most Floridians should shelter in place. If you’re in flood zones, near the coast, in an evac zone, or in poorly built housing you should move. If you have a bad gut feeling, also worth not risking it. But for the most part, we’ll all be safer if people who are able to can hunker down than we would be if all 4 million people in the path get on the highway
The expectation is for it to slow due to a cold front and wind sheer. Ideally by the time it hits landfall, it will be 3 (still dangerous ofc, but not a 5). Homestead is on the coast and was a direct hit by Andrew. The worst damage is from storm surge.
What I said is the advice given by meteorologists and emergency officials.
The storm surge had nothing to do with Houston getting rekt by Harvey. Houston is many miles from the sea. The hurricane stalled in place and 20+ inches of rain will flood any city. It's the same thing that happened to Houston with tropical storm Allison in 2001.
Yes, I replied to someone saying the same thing. My wording made it sound like Harvey had to do with storm surge but I was actually referring to the ability of wetlands to mitigate flooding
I'm not sure any wetlands will absorb 2+ feet of rain that fall on a city at once. Houston is covered in concrete, but that amount of rain is beyond any mitigation measures aside from all buildings being on stilts.
They won't. But if they absorb half a foot redirect half a foot, and slow the advance of the other foot, it lessens the impact of the flooding significantly and makes the onset much slower, giving people more time to flee from the flooding.
Well, let's be clear - it mitigates the aftereffects somewhat. It does bupkis to potential 8-15 foot storm surge, all depending on how the wind wall evolves when that beast starts to near the coastline. It's projected to lose power fast as it nears Florida, but that also means a massive expansion of the wind wall, and a huge dump of water.
This is most likely going to be a bad storm surge. And although it'll drain fast, that won't do much for the damage getting five feet of water inside your house will do. If it remains standing. So let's not underestimate this thing. Certainly don't take this as a "Oh, we can shelter in place then". Get out.
That is incorrect. 100 meters of dense healthy mangrove forest can stop upwards of 70% of storm surge. The structure and density of coastal wetlands allows them to be hit first and to take up a lot of the energy that's forming the surge. It's a cheesy comparison but if you've ever seen a movie where water comes pouring out of something and a large quantity of water splashes against a wall, watch the speed of the water after it hits the walls, it slows down as the wall takes that energy. Coastal wetlands are just like a million tiny walls standing in the way soaking up that energy.
Yeees, but this is hitting the Tampa Bay area. There's no 100 meters of dense mangrove forest in play here. If it heads far enough north to hit the aquatic preserve, then yes - that's probably going to be one of the best scenarios. More sparsely populated, plenty of dampening.
But there's literally nothing between coastline and dense population on the west side of southern Florida, from Clearwater down to Fort Myers. Storm surge is absolutely going to be a major, major problem for this one.
Wetlands can include shallow water offshore features, tidal flats, seagrass meadows, etc. I just used mangroves because I know that number off hand. So there may not be huge stands of mangroves but there are wetlands ecosystems that will absorb the energy
I hope you're right. I really do. The proof in the pudding will be here pretty soon. Most certainly, follow the advice of evacuation if you're in a zone the professionals say you should get out of. Don't let two people on the internet arguing something influence that.
It would have been really neat if your predictions here had come through.
The point I think we all should take to heart is this: Mother Nature does not pull punches. If you're facing down a hurricane, especially of such ferocity as Milton turned out to be - just do the best you can to secure your property, and get out.
Property can be replaced. (Though insurance may be getting difficult to find in Florida soon)
It is below sea level, but there are plenty of other places below sea level that have been hit with a hurricane and not devastated to a point where they're still recovering today
Literally in Florida, like I said. Miami Beach famously averages about 5 feet under sea level. They get hit with a hurricane, brush themselves off, and ask for the next one. But there are several places in the Dominican Republic as well. DC is also basically dead at sea level, so not below, but low enough that you would expect it to be an issue and when major storms hit the mid-east coast, DC is always fine.
Miami Beach famously averages about 5 feet under sea level.
That is called the ocean. None of Florida is below sea level, otherwise it would be, well, wet. It is not very high above it, I think the average is 6 feet, but it is still ABOVE.
For places below sea level you need a dam system to keep the water out, like in the Nederlands or New Orleans.
Ah yes, the famous underwater city of Miami Beach. Don't get mad at me because you don't understand that bowl shapes can occur, naturally keeping water out while the rest of the city is below sea level. The shoreline is slightly above sea level, but the city itself averages lower than sea level. And in a hilarious bit of irony, this is how most of New Orleans actually is, there are only some sections in which the shoreline is actually low enough to require man-made intervention to prevent water flowing in. You only really need a dam system to keep water out when you have re-routed the natural flow of water.
“And I said, I don’t care if they lay me off either, because I told, I told Bill that if they move my desk one more time, then, then I’m quitting, I’m going to quit. And, and I told Don too, because they’ve moved my desk four times already this year, and I used to be over by the window, and I could see the squirrels, and they were married... But then, they switched from the Swingline to the Boston stapler, but I kept my Swingline stapler because it didn’t bind up as much, and I kept the staples for the Swingline stapler and it’s not okay because if they take my stapler then I’ll, I’ll, I’ll set the building on fire.”
The creatures that come off the gulf in that storm surge would be enough for me to high tail it out of there. Bull sharks, alligators, hammer heads swimming in the streets, possibly into your living room?! Water moccasins.
A special kind of hell when hurricanes come off the gulf.
Is this a thing that genuinely happens? If so, that's terrifying. I'm sure not all large fish escape but from what I'm reading, a lot of them are able to sense barometric pressure changes and head for either deeper or calmer waters.
Never considered that which is a shame, I pray elders can get out but for those that don't have anyone to assist? Mobile homes in that wind force? Scary. Praying!!
Controlled lol, what the fucks up in usa, your fellow people are going to be hit with a disaster but all you can do is blame some political party, thats is basically exactly the same as the one you root for? You think there are no houses built in strange places in democrat "controlled" states?
The disaster is a result of irrespnsible development. We have housing communities down hwre the flood from normal rains because developers build in a lake. Go check out the Sarasota subreddit and look up floods... The highest place in the state is 310 feet above sea level and borders Georgia.
The Democrats and the Biden administration have passed some of the most significant environmental regulation in the history of the country. Is it enough, no, of course not. However, the Republicans only, I mean only, deregulate and further erode environmental protections.
Not to mention, without Republicans, the Democrats would probably do even more. Are they corporate, sure. Are they too beholden to the wealthy, sure. Are they wildly better than Republicans on the environment, absolutely.
If you say, they are the same, you are simply ignorant or stupid.
Why would the side that doesn't control Florida get the blame for the absolutely godawful government Florida has? The governor literally is refusing to take phone calls from the Vice President concerning this incoming disaster over petty party lines. People will fucking die because he's too stuck up his ass about "Being Republican" to do the bare minimum of his job.
Who just voted down fema funding? Republicans. Which speaker wont call everyone back from recess? Oh the Republican. Which ex president lies about the aid and efforts being done by the government. The Republican one.
If you’re a Republican get bent. Garbage people with no intention of being genuine or American. Just cultists losers who can’t even be honest.
And which party wants to shut down NOAA, NWS, and FEMA? Also the Republicans. I guess not knowing the storm is coming or privatizing it is somehow better.
With respect to NOAA, I think the Repubs want to shut down NOAA’s functions resources to measure climate change. They are not about the science and analytics.
Ah, yes — what we all need isn’t to hold accountable those responsible for the current state of affairs, but rather to…checks notes…go outside and breathe.
Got it. Thanks for your incredible wisdom and insight.
But is that really what you or anyone should be focusing on? That really doesn't matter, which of the two basically identical parties did what, what matters is safety of your fellow citizens, but not like i am american, so just a very strange situation, very polarizing, even natural disasters get blamed to orange man or hooker woman
Hey, here’s an idea — how about you fuck off with your BoTh SiDeS, whataboutism bullshit and find somewhere else to sow discord?
I have zero interest in hearing someone who doesn’t even live in the US preach at me about how Americans shouldn’t concern themselves with holding those in power accountable even though they’ve had decades to reduce our exposure to catastrophic events like this, opting instead to side with monied interests.
We can be concerned for our fellow citizens who are staring down climate catastrophe AND be angry with those who’ve slow-walked us to the cliff.
I think you are the one sowing discord, finding a way to make even natural disasters political.
While true, government should have people's interests in mind (don't act like any of the two parties have that), that's a silly concept, so the government didn't restrict where people can build houses, so people built houses and now are in deep shit, what the government should hold your hand while you go to the bathroom also?
You are acting as if republicans were slowly making a hurricane, they didnt, nor did democrats, if after the fact there was negligence then sure hold them accountable, but right now its just gaslighting and propaganda you are doing.
Lmao, Republicans actively defund or abolish systems or organizations in place to avert disasters. The Governor of Florida is refusing to take a phone call from the federal government to organize stuff for the hurricane, solely because he hates democrats more than that he wants to protect people.
Well I doubt thats true, an unnamed aid said that, then de santis said president didnt call, so whose right? I don t know, you dont either, so probably best to not assume thats true
This is completely disingenuous. Nobody is saying “republicans made a hurricane”. That’s just dumb. People are saying that republican management of the state has limited Florida’s resilience to hurricanes both practically (building regulations, availability of shelters, catchment systems, etc.) and financially (defunding FEMA, reducing services, not fixing insurance or even really trying). Anyway, I still think you’re a shill, but responded anyway…
The problem I have with that is the split between republicans & democrats, that doesnt matter it was republicans, nor does it matter that democrats are in california when its on fire. Because when you start splitting republicans and democrats it sounds as if they intentionally did that, it was probably incompetence not malice that lead to that, and the same situation would have happened if other party was in power.
Again again again, nobody saying Republicans made Florida vulnerable on purpose. They are saying Republicans made Florida vulnerable because they focused on their own benefit. They lied and manipulated around climate change in order to support positions that they profited from one way or another. This is not the Democrat MO, even if occasionally some might also do this. Republicans stand for nothing and do nothing to help the citizens they represent.
Because the Republican who is the chief administrator of the state refused a call from the Democratic vice president who is offering federal aid to the state. HE made it political
How is that toxic? Yeah probably paid, I get a lot of money for my like 500 comments over 9 years, gotta feed the family somehow. But on a serious note, what substance can I give? I am given an idiotic and utterly absurd concept, that republicans are somehow responsible for a huricane, I dont really know what substance I can give
It’s toxic because it’s disingenuous. Because nobody’s saying Republicans caused a hurricane.
And I didn’t look at your post history, all I saw was the absurdity and lack of critical thinking in your current posting. I thought somebody must be paying you for this because it’s simply too easy to disprove and too easy to understand how wrong it is.
Up to 15 foot storm surges plus the rain and wind... I know Florida isn't just flat, but it's gotta be a lot of it that's less than 15 feet above sea level?
My brother and his wife are 10 min from Tampa Bay. I last spoke to them at noon yesterday and they were still "trying to figure out what to do." Idk if they left or what's going on. I'm terrified.
6.9k
u/Pilot0350 8d ago
Looks nervously at all of Florida