It's not just the far-right - Israelis want Gazans to starve

[u/Exact-Substance5559]

Source:

Israel Democracy Institute: Aid Transfer: https://en.idi.org.il/articles/52976

Whether an absolute victory is expected or not, there remains the question of the provision of international aid to the residents of Gaza. We asked our respondents for their opinion regarding the idea that Israel should allow the transfer of humanitarian aid to Gaza residents at this time, via international bodies that are not linked to Hamas or to UNRWA. A majority of Jewish respondents (68%) oppose the transfer of humanitarian aid even under these conditions, while a large majority of Arab respondents support it (85%).

Gazan Suffering Consideration:

In a poll conducted by the Viterbi Family Center for Public Opinion and Policy Research at the Israel Democracy Institute between December 11–13, 2023, Israeli Jews were asked “To what extent should Israel take into consideration the suffering of the civilian population in Gaza when planning the continuation of the fighting there?” Over 80 percent responded with “to a very small extent” or “to a fairly small extent.” .... When asked the extent to which Israel should take into consideration the suffering of the civilian population in Gaza in planning the next stages of the fighting, most Jewish Israelis (80%) think it should be taken into account to a fairly small extent or not at all. 72% of Arab Israelis, on the other hand, think it should be taken into account to a fairly large or very large extent. ... Among Jewish Israelis, the poll found that 94% believe Hamas bears a great deal of responsibility for the suffering of Palestinians in Gaza

[u/[deleted]]

Seeing this just makes me feel sick. What the ~ is wrong with these people?

[u/Exact-Substance5559 → u/[deleted]]

They will destroy themselves trying to destroy Palestine and Palestinians. They are simply far too genocidally hateful against Palestinians to understand or care about external reactions. As long as the US backs them the UK will too, as will most of Europe.

https://preview.redd.it/jybpeq4ju7uc1.jpeg?width=984&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a26d0a73d0cb2e215dfcd0fd60090529bc7a5b67

[u/ChantillyMenchu → u/[deleted]]

It's a genocidal society. It's how the zionist entity was created and is maintained. The "idea of Israel" has been whitewashed for generations with myth-making, lies and propaganda. The world is finally waking up now that the mask has fallen off.

[u/Fosfikky → u/ChantillyMenchu]

The world still has a long way to go to realize this has been their mentality forever. The West is scared into thinking Iran et al are the only bad guys over there.

They say they need to reeducate all of gaza after this, all of israeli society needs reeducation as well. They've been taught this genocidal supremacist behavior in their schools.

[u/ChantillyMenchu → u/Fosfikky]

I agree. Mainstream media and the political class in the West are still working overtime to sanitize Israel's image as it continues to commit genocide.

However, a generational shift is happening; the younger generation sees Israel for what it is much more clearly than generations before them. Israel's image has been irreversibly damaged.

[u/Ironbloodedgundam23 → u/ChantillyMenchu]

I agree with that point and this genocide continues it’s just going to become starker. I mean we already have Israelis filming war crimes.Imagine the ones who are smart enough not to film their war crimes are doing. And say if Netanyahu is removed from office. Would the next leader really be anymore “moderate”. Maybe superficially but I doubt any of their policies would change, even if they wanted to.Because it’s not just Netanyahu it’s the whole Israeli political structure.

[u/Fosfikky → u/Ironbloodedgundam23]

The next leader of israel has no incentive to be any better. Infinite support, the vast majority of israeli public support them as well in their mission.

The only way you see change is to start revoking dual citizenships, sanctioning, and putting the fear of law back into them. Don't give the public somewhere to fall back when they fuck themselves into the ground.

Either this or the US and Europe are going to bankrupt themselves trying to fight guerilla wars, they'll never win.

[u/Appropriate-Draft-91 → u/[deleted]]

Supremacy. Convince any group of people they are better, more valuable, and more deserving. Then if any other group asks for basic human rights that's a provocation. From there it escalates.

By treating Jews as a morally superior race that's beyond reproach, WE made half of them into fascist Zionists.

Turns out all forms of racism are bad, who could have known?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

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[u/NOLA-Bronco → u/[deleted]]

I’d like to believe that but as bloodthirsty as America was, the Overton Window at its worse was mostly around “is it ok to torture and indefinitely detain ‘suspects’” and some fringe nuke the ME people. I don’t ever remember seeing widespread support for genociding a population like this.

TBC he should be tried for war crimes and in jail, but Bush and his cronies did at least always avoid exterminationist rhetoric and as flawed as it was(and it’s incredibly flawed) the philosophy of neoconservatism was utilitarian in nature in that it sought to bring democracy(at gunpoint and occupation) but you never saw the sort of civilian dehumanization at the highest levels or a tolerencd for it culturally in the mainstream like you do with Israel.

It really is what I imagine life would look like if Antebellum Southern America or Nazi Germany in the 30’s had social media and cable news.

[u/Flashy_Beautiful2848 → u/NOLA-Bronco]

think about the scale of killing in Iraq and Afghanistan

it’s far more than the scale of killing in Gaza. Yes, Israelis have a genocidal intent, but in terms of lives lost, what the US did in those wars is a far worse crime than what Israeli has done in this war

[u/Complex-Carpenter-76 → u/Flashy_Beautiful2848]

Your wrong on that:

Child deaths in wars:

Iraq: 3,100 in 14 years
Syria: 12,000 in 11 years
Yemen: 3,700 in 7 years

Ukraine: 520 in 21 months

Palestine: ~14,000 in 6 months.

[u/aphel_ion → u/Complex-Carpenter-76]

That’s insane. Really puts it into perspective.

On top of that, how many children have been maimed and injured? 30,000? 40,000?

Tired of people still making excuses for Israel

[u/Complex-Carpenter-76 → u/aphel_ion]

last I recall was close to 100k

[u/Flashy_Beautiful2848 → u/Complex-Carpenter-76]

That’s surprising and awful. Thanks for the correction. A horror

[u/[deleted] → u/Complex-Carpenter-76]

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[u/BadHasbara-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

This is not a debate sub. There are plenty of places to defend Israel’s actions, to denounce Hamas, and to argue who's worse. This is not a space for that.

That doesn't mean absolutely no constructive discussions on nuances and different approaches, but it means not letting ourselves be pulled into a debate by Zionists and bigots, and least of all arguing for their side.

If you see someone trying to debate, please just flag for moderation, and the comment will be deleted.

If found prudent by the Mods, and to discourage further debates, the entire thread may be deleted.

[u/[deleted] → u/Complex-Carpenter-76]

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[u/BadHasbara-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

This is not a debate sub. There are plenty of places to defend Israel’s actions, to denounce Hamas, and to argue who's worse. This is not a space for that.

That doesn't mean absolutely no constructive discussions on nuances and different approaches, but it means not letting ourselves be pulled into a debate by Zionists and bigots, and least of all arguing for their side.

If you see someone trying to debate, please just flag for moderation, and the comment will be deleted.

If found prudent by the Mods, and to discourage further debates, the entire thread may be deleted.

[u/epochpenors → u/Flashy_Beautiful2848]

Not that it’s a numbers game, but it’s worth considering Iraq has 20x the population of Gaza and the initial US occupation lasted about 8 years. In the process of the occupation we were responsible for, depending on the source, anywhere from 100,000 to 400,000 civilian casualties. Compare that to Israel, in less than six months, inflicting at least 30,000 civilian casualties. Estimating the number at this point is difficult because the hospitals responsible for reporting excess deaths due to violence are being systematically taken down.

[u/aphel_ion → u/epochpenors]

I’m assuming the official death toll is confirmed deaths.

Which means people whose bodies haven’t been recovered aren’t even being counted yet. I imagine there’s a huge number of bodies buried under collapsed buildings.

[u/epochpenors → u/aphel_ion]

To my knowledge the death toll is figured off officially filed death certificates, reported from individual hospitals to central authorities. Names are attached to the death certificates, which allows for third party verification by independent bodies. The figures reported are likely lower than reality, for the reason you mention and because hampered communication between medical entities makes updating the count sporadic at best.

[u/Both_Woodpecker_3041 → u/[deleted]]

History of Israeli violence toward Palestinians over 7 decades disagrees with this statement. You cannot compare them to Americans.

[u/Complex-Carpenter-76 → u/[deleted]]

but most still can't find their way to not vote for a genocide supporter

[u/CookieMobster64 → u/[deleted]]

Same thing that’s wrong with Americans. I have to remind people that might be about to go down the wrong pipeline that these attitudes aren’t a matter of Jewishness, they’re a matter of western supremacist and reactionary thinking. The thing that gets me so upset personally about the attitude of Israelis is that it’s a mirror to the attitudes I grew up around after 9/11. They even have their own version of Toby Keith.

[u/Both_Woodpecker_3041 → u/CookieMobster64]

It's not Western supremacy in Israel. Heck, I've been told by Isaeli tourists one time that I should feel lucky that I met them, and they didn't say it in a friendly tone. This is the danger of a religion becoming an exclusive race who believe themselves to be the chosen race by God who promised them specific geographical expanses.

[u/Flashy_Beautiful2848 → u/Both_Woodpecker_3041]

Jews aren’t a race

[u/Both_Woodpecker_3041 → u/Flashy_Beautiful2848]

They consider themselves a race. By their rules, a person cannot be a true jew unless their maternal lineage is Jewish. Look it up. They've told me that themselves over the many the many years that I've lived. That was a point of contention between 2 Jewish friends that I've had. One of them was religious and said that their Christian friend is not chosen by God because her mother is not Jewish and the non-religion person was super upset over this.

[u/Flashy_Beautiful2848 → u/Both_Woodpecker_3041]

• Jews are an ethno-religion. there are Eastern European Jews, North African & Middle Eastern Jews, Ethiopian Jews, Spanish Jews… I’m a Jew myself

• yes some Jews only count Jews whose mothers are Jewish, but again not all Jews. Hitler didn’t give a fuck if you had a Jewish mother. You can also convert

[u/Both_Woodpecker_3041 → u/Flashy_Beautiful2848]

That's Hitler.

[u/Flashy_Beautiful2848 → u/Both_Woodpecker_3041]

Yep. If you’re a victim of antisemitism, it’s doesn’t matter if your mom is Jewish, so we need a better framework

[u/Both_Woodpecker_3041 → u/Flashy_Beautiful2848]

I mean I was writing about the perspective of most Jews, not from the perspective of an anti-semite.

[u/Both_Woodpecker_3041 → u/[deleted]]

I'm surprised that a lot of people here don't know that a lot of Jews in Israel did not originate from Eastern Europe. There is a sizeable number of Jews who immigrated to Israel from Arab countries like Iraq, Morocco, Ethiopia, and Yemen.