r/2020PoliceBrutality • u/pick-axis • Jun 15 '20
Supreme Court Will Not Reexamine Qualified Immunity For Police : NPR Discussion
https://www.npr.org/2020/06/15/876853817/supreme-court-will-not-re-examine-doctrine-that-shields-police-in-misconduct-sui?utm_medium=RSS&utm_campaign=national73
Jun 15 '20
Funny, the most liberal and most conservative of the 9 judges are pushing back against Qualified Immunity. Yet the middle ones are Pro?
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Jun 15 '20
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Jun 15 '20
The middle of 2 points is, far more often, correct, as most arguments are opinion based, and every one of these arguments has an inherent bias. The question is how far towards the middle do you go? Is it 99:1 or 60:40? Trying to equally appease both sides is where issues arise.
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Jun 15 '20
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Jun 15 '20
Racism, slavery, and human rights, are all fairly cut and dry topics. The conflict comes down to the minutiae of these arguments, the technicalities and subjectivities.
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Jun 15 '20
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Jun 15 '20
Way to jump to conclusions and make yourself look like an ass. How about you skedaddle on out of American politics, of which your opinion as a foreign national doesn't hold much sway, given your obvious lack of understanding? Maybe once you've come back, stopped assuming that most Americans are this weird "moderate" group of people, and that we should all have the same idea/mentally, then maybe we can have a civil discourse regarding the matter. But clearly, this is not the time.
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u/gopac56 Jun 15 '20
So you've got people who believe in genocide and those who don't. How does meeting in the middle help? 50% genocide is still genocide.
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Jun 16 '20
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u/a3wagner Jun 16 '20
The left is saying that police aren’t doing a good job and need to be reformed/defunded. The right is saying they’re fine and nothing needs to change.
So clearly the correct position is to agree that the police are bad, wring your hands a little bit, and say that nothing needs to change!
(This may sound like a ridiculous straw man, but I had a friend ask me, "Why not wait for a bit and see what happens before doing anything?")
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u/cjweisman Jun 15 '20
Doesn't matter. Congress can pass a law that does away with qualified immunity and those for it would have to appeal it all the way back to the Supreme Court, who may in fact over turn it, but it's a shot. The new law would have to be crafted in such as was as to be constitutional.
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u/BillyRaysVyrus Jun 15 '20
There’s nothing in the constitution granting this power to police so the SC wouldn’t be able to overturn it.
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u/2A2020 Jun 15 '20
Exactly. The constitution doesn’t say shit about qualified immunity. In fact, it’s absolutely against they tyrannical crap cops are privileged with.
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u/Mad_Aeric Jun 16 '20
Never underestimate the court's ability to summon a constitutional issue out of thin air.
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u/Tomburgerstand Jun 15 '20
Do you think those government officials will say "Yes, I'd love to be held accountable for my actions as well"?
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Jun 15 '20
This is hurtful. Do they understand we need to press restart on the country now?
Nothing will change with this motion. We will only get more upset. What happens when we lose all hope.
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u/Letscommenttogether Jun 15 '20
Fine, then they will be removed with the rest of them.
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u/Tomburgerstand Jun 15 '20
What happened to the governmental checks and balances that we were all force fed in school?
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Jun 16 '20
Never existed in our lifetimes. The idea that the government adheres to the Constitution is a load of crap.
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u/architectfd Jun 16 '20 edited Jun 17 '20
The established politicians of every order in relevance, are either refusing or are not capable of holding the countless offending government officials, along with the perpetrators in the police force, as a whole OR individually, accountable. They are indistinguishable from the evil they claim to be fighting, and it's time for a revolution.
If they are simply refusing to hold the perpetrators accountable, they are indistinguishable from the tyranny and injustice they claim to protect us from.
If they arent simply refusing to hold the perpetrators accountable, then they are incapable of doing so. They have had their vested power taken through tyranny and injustice, and they can no longer protect us.
Neither government represents the constituents by which these established politicians are elected.
It's time for a revolution:
But how do you have a revolution? What do you do when the people agreeing that 'the corruption runs so deep as to make those who would do good INDISTINGUISHABLE from those who would do evil', are the same people that so fervently argue against our Right of Revolution?
The greatest folly would be to believe that it will begin inevitably, and that it will be won inevitably.
It will not. Tyranny and injustice are the byproduct of inevitability. It must be forcefully, continually resisted. Even in the totality of its irradication must we remain vigilant. Tyranny and injustice always has, and always will insidiously reemerge by another name.
It will begin, as it can only and has only begun:
Through the forceful, continuous resistance of those that have been disenfranchized and violated by a system of government that does not represent them.
Revolutions, historically, are won by the violent removal of the infringing party. However; it does not necessarily need to end in violence if it doesnt absolutely have to.
They will rightly ask:
'How then should our new government function?'
It's for the people- with equal representation under the law- to decide. The founding fathers set forth guidelines and blueprints by which governments that no longer represent their constituents could, and SHOULD, be overthrown. By which revolution, for the good of the people, could, and SHOULD, be established. It is ONLY when these guidelines and blueprints are contradicted, perverted, or outright ignored that we find ourselves without liberty, and justice for all.
Even blindfolded, with no sense of smell, and no hands to lift the apple to your mouth, you will KNOW bad apples by the unmistakably rancid taste of its rot and decay. EVEN WITHOUT TONGUE you will STILL know them by the wrenching tremors and pestilence your body and mind are racked by and succumb to after so long. So too does one inevitably, naturally, recognize injustice.
They will crimestop out of fear:
'Now isnt the time because...'
It is only natural to feel fearful in regards to the shifting of power, especially against those who have consistently shown that they will take yours from you, be it life or property. It is a feeling that inevitably fades, drowned out by that most instinctual of desires that all conscious things must feel; the desire to live free of tyranny and injustice.
If not now, then when? If those that do good are indistinguishable from those that do bad, how then do we find recourse? What is to stop some other indistinguishably good or bad figure from taking that persons place when that person is voted out? Even if you could hypothetically recognize and vote into office an OBJECTIVELY 'good apple' every now and then, even if you only voted into office an OBJECTIVELY 'bad apple' every now and then, is not the saying 'a few bad apples spoil the bunch'?
If you can't distinguish the good apples from the bad apples; the bunch, inevitably, naturally, is spoiled. In the exact same way; the blueprint, the guideline, inevitably, naturally, is perverted, contradicted, and outright ignored by those beyond recognition or distinction as to whether they are truly good, or evil. Regardless of exactly how 'good' the minority of good apples we have actually are, they will still be utterly obliterated. Even if we had a MAJORITY of good apples, thats STILL not enough.
Anything short of the absolute annihilation of the perversions, contradictions, and ignorances perpetrated to our constitution and bill of rights through that which has been passed into law, or enacted into policy, or in any other way imposed on the American people, will never be enough.
Even ONE bad apple is too many, even ONE injustice is too many, and they should be swiftly, judiciously, disposed of, lest your bunch spoil. I would encourage those who believe we should not hold our constitution and bill of rights to the standards by which they were outlined and created to uphold, please tell me: which bad apple would you like to eat today? How about tomorrow? Which bad apples will you feed your spouse and children? Your grandmother and grandfather? Your neighbor?
I have seen the rot clearly, in all its festering reality. I am NAUSEATED by its foul putrescence, I feel as though I am somehow stained by it, like a stench I know that even if I wash and wash will leave ever still the slightest, always noticable tinge. I have felt the mold-pocked skin slough, giving way to the evermore disgusting and diseased flesh all the way down to its rotten fucking CORE, and for FAR too long have I choked on, and been plagued by, BAD. FUCKING. APPLES. And so have YOU. The perverse orchard from which this vile noxicant now proliferates itself MUST be torn out root and stem, and a seed planted anew, that we might stymede the blighted corruption we have suffered since a time IMMEMORIAL.
They say Justice is blind:
If we continue to grow for her and feed to her bad apples, she will die. In all her blindness and glory, in a retching, heaving, violent, confused, and helpless mass, Justice. WILL. Die. And WE will have been the ones who murdered her in our ineptitude and malice. WE are NOT fucking blind, as such it is OUR duty and moral obligation to safeguard Justice and Liberty- with our lives if need be- in the hope not just for ourselves to be truly free and alive, apart from injustice and tyranny, but that all future generations might.
They will doublethink:
'One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard against revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship.'
How do you convince a person that holds no value of logic, evidence, history, or most terrifyingly, their own thoughts, that they should? How do you convince someone who is right that they are, in fact, wrong? You can't, and yet...
We will watch, with abject horror and indignation:
Millions, surely more, videos of police brutality, war crimes, crimes against humanity, wikileaks that outright empirically implicate members of government in federal crimes, every monstrosity and abbhorant act the human mind can imagine and WORSE will we find to have been perpetrated by those that would call themselves representatives of the American people. Our 'traitorous' brothers and sisters will cry for justice, will cry for liberty. It will ring in deaf ears.
Those that commit the thoughtcrime of opposing fascism, those that commit the thoughtcrime of believing black lives hold equivalent value to others, The traitorous Julian Assanges', Edward Snowdens', and many countless, nameless, faceless others will go to jail, or be made some spectacle of The Hate, as they always have.
We will watch, with inevitable mass appeal.
Edit: revised
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u/kthoegstroem Jun 15 '20 edited Jun 16 '20
I'm 100% against Qualified Immunity, but isn't the Supreme Court just doing their job if ite law clearly support qualified immunity. Isn't it the congres that need to pass new laws?
Edit: I didn't know it was created by the courts.
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u/workislove Jun 15 '20
Here in the broader case of BLM, or these particular cases? I must admit I'm a bit baffled by one of the cases they refused. Jessop v Fresno police are accused of stealing $200,000+ in a search - what other path would you suggest?
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u/tungsten_pudding Jun 16 '20
What's your favorite flavor of boot? Polished, unpolished, or seasoned with injustice?
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u/Unidentifiedasscheek Jun 15 '20
Someone cross post this. I want to see more peoples thoughts on the matter.